I was most interested in the following interchange between some friends of mine:
Dear Jan,
I think you and I are in agreement that Zion is not going to be built by man, but Christ. But I have a question: In Revelations 21: 9-11
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I WILL SHOW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE!
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Having the glory of God; and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; ect.
Now down to vs 22 : And I saw no temple therein; for the Lord God Almighty and the lamb are the temple of it.
I believe that this is going to happen after the millinium because of its placement.. but I do not know.
So what is your take on this, Jan?
Also why is Jerusalem so important to the Jews and the Muslims?
I know in some of the writings of the prophets of the old T. , the house of Israel / and or Jerusalem is considered the Bride of Christ.
Then in the NT the Bride becomes considered the Church of the Believers..
What is your take on all this.. I would like to sincerely see what you believe this all means?
Love ya, Vivien
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Oh golly, Vivien -- big hard questions you ask, and I wish I had more time to devote to them.
My studies have led me to believe that the great city -- the holy Jerusalem -- will descend out of heaven PRIOR TO the millennium. In my opinion, the following is probably the most plain and clear explanation of this event:
[Eth 6:8] Wherefore the remnant of the house of Joseph shall be built up upon this land; and it shall be a land of their inheritance; and they shall build up a holy city unto the Lord, like unto the Jerusalem of old; and they shall no more be confounded, until the end come, when the earth shall pass away.
[Eth 6:9] And there shall be a new heaven and a new earth; and they shall be like unto the old, save the old have passed away, and all things have become new.
[Eth 6:10] AND THEN COMETH THE NEW JERUSALEM; and blessed are they who dwell therein, for it is they whose garments are white through the blood of the lamb; and they are they who are numbered among the remnant of the seed of Joseph, who were of the house of Israel.
[Eth 6:11] And then also cometh the Jerusalem of old; and the inhabitants thereof, blessed are they, for they have been washed in the blood of the Lamb;
[Eth 6:12] And they are they who were scattered and gathered in from the four quarters of the earth, and from the north countries, and are partakers of the fulfilling of the covenant which God made with their father Abraham.
Compare to the Inspired Version concerning that day:
[Gen 7:70] And righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine own elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare; an holy city, that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion; a New Jerusalem.
[Gen 7:71] AND THE LORD SAID UNTO ENOCH, THEN SHALT THOU AND ALL THY CITY MEET THEM THERE; and we will receive them into our bosom; and they shall see us, and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other;
[Gen 7:72] And there shall be mine abode, and it shall be Zion, which shall come forth out of all the creations which I have made; AND FOR THE SPACE OF A THOUSAND YEARS SHALL THE EARTH REST.
Also you asked: "Why is Jerusalem so important to the Jews and the Muslims? I know in some of the writings of the prophets of the old T. , the house of Israel / and or Jerusalem is considered the Bride of Christ. Then in the NT the Bride becomes considered the Church of the Believers. What is your take on all this. I would like to sincerely see what you believe this all means?"
A short answer isn't going to do justice to your question. These are questions I tend to ponder and discuss at great length in my study papers. But here is a very short answer attempt, for what it's worth. I'll start with Paul's words:
[Gal 4:22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a free woman.
[Gal 4:23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the free woman was by promise.
[Gal 4:24] Which things are an allegory; for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which as Agar.
[Gal 4:25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
[Gal 4:26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
I would suggest that there are two types of "Lord's people." There are those who profess to be the "Lord's people" (let's call them the first type) and then there are those who truly are the "Lord's people" (let's call them the second type). Take the Jews back in Christ's day, as an example. Many claimed to be the Lord's people, but only a hand full among those people were truly the Lord's -- and became his followers or disciples. I have to make this distinction in order to make any sense with what I say next.
At least since the days of Christ, the "Lord's people" (first type) have desired a physical kingdom of God on earth (Paul refers to this as "Jerusalem") while those who are truly the Lord's (second type) have desired the heavenly kingdom which eventually will be upon the earth (Paul refers to this kingdom as "Jerusalem which is above--the mother of us all").
[Heb 11:16] But now they [the holy prophets] desire a better country, that is, a heavenly; wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for he hath prepared for them a city.
[Sec 45:2g] a city reserved until a day of righteousness shall come:
[Sec 45:2h] a day which was sought for by all holy men, and they found it not, because of wickedness and abominations, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth, but obtained a promise that they should find it, and see it in their flesh.
The Jews wanted a physical kingdom on earth so badly that they killed Jesus who didn't bring them what they wanted. And nothing much has changed in over 2,000 years. The Lord's people (first type) still desire a physical kingdom of God on earth (Jerusalem). True Jews, however, still desire the heavenly Jerusalem above, which Jerusalem will ultimately be upon the earth "when the Lord brings again Zion." When I say "true Jews," I am not referring to worldly definitions, but scriptural. True Jews are not they who are outwardly circumcised, but inwardly (
see Romans 2:28-29). True Jews are truly the Lord's people (second type), not those who claim an ancestry or a circumcision or a lineage and thus set themselves apart (first type).
Back to your question-- why is Jerusalem so important to Jews and Muslims? I think it's because neither Jews nor Muslims are Jesus' "true Jews" or "true disciples" so they lack understanding of Christ's spiritual definitions of Jerusalem. The enemy in secret chambers has exploited their illiteracy of scripture, and used it to his advantage in these last days to create what Paul described as a "strong delusion."
It is my understanding that, even in Old Testament days, there was only one true Bride, and she wasn't always necessarily the "bride" people thought she was:
[Rom 9:4] Who are Israelites; of whom are the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God,
[Rom 9:5] And the promises which are made unto the fathers; and of whom, as concerning the flesh, Christ was, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
[Rom 9:6] Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.
[Rom 9:7] Neither, because they are all children of Abraham, are they the seed; but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[Rom 9:8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
What Paul said in Romans 9 applied to Jews of old as well as to Jews of today, true believers of old as well as to true believers of today. Ever notice how many times Isaiah speaks of a wicked "Israel" and a servant "Israel" -- two different people "of the Lord" who will receive two different fates? All are his people, but not all Israel are of Israel. They never have been all Israel, which are of Israel. God doesn't change.
This subject is the reason why I am always fighting against those who insist upon building an earthly kingdom -- an earthly "Jerusalem." Man always desires the familiar, thus he tends to place his hope in the earthly -- the Jerusalem who is in bondage with her children.
[Rom 8:24] For we are saved by hope; BUT HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NOT HOPE; for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
It's a couple hours past my bedtime. I hope this made some small degree of sense.
Love,
Jan